From The Ashes: He Was My Best Friend

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TINA INTARAPANONT, HOST: Hello, I’m Tina Intarapanont, and welcome to From the Ashes: a podcast where we have  conversations with everyday people about grief and loss.

In this episode, I catch up with my friend Tevy Oum and talk about her ex best friend. For privacy reasons, the names Tevy and I refer to in this episode are fake. Jason was Tevy’s best friend in high school, but after seeing a darker side of him in the way he treated his girlfriend, she had to reevaluate her friendship and what it meant to her.

TEVY OUM, GUEST: Jason was really chill, relatable, he was just easy to talk to him about things because he wouldn’t judge you for them. He was also really encouraging which I really liked about him. He introduced me to chess club because I really wanted to do chess club for the longest time, and he just told me, “Listen, it’s your senior year, you might as well just do it. If you don’t like it, at least you know you tried.”

INTARAPANONT: So he was good about getting you out of your comfort zone.

OUM: Yeah, he was extremely adventurous. He would try new things and I feel like it kind of pushed me to start being more adventurous with myself.

INTARAPANONT: As your friend, I kind of know how the story goes. I know that you and Jason aren’t really friends anymore. Could you tell me why?

OUM: I think one of the main reasons why we stopped being friends was because I saw a side to him that I didn’t necessarily agree with. He was very manipulative. He did a lot of gaslighting, especially to his girlfriend at the time– we’ll call her Beth for privacy.

At the beginning of the relationship, it was cute. You know, everyone has their honeymoon phase in the relationship. As time went on, the way he treated her started to get worse and worse, and I didn’t like seeing him treat her like that. He would use her emotions as a weapon against her and just gaslight her, manipulate her. They were in a relationship, but he would be talking to other people. And I just did not agree with that. It felt so hard to watch.

INTARAPANONT: It’s hard to see someone you’re super close to hurt someone else that you’re also really close to.

OUM: Yeah, I agree.

INTARAPANONT: How did that make you feel?

OUM: He was my best friend. She was a very close friend to me. I’ve known her longer than I’ve known him. I was just angry, watching him treat her like that. I just didn’t like the way he would gaslight her. She would talk about how he made her feel and how she didn’t like what he was doing, or how he was making her feel, and he would just be like, “You’re overreacting. It’s not even that bad.” He would also try to shift the blame onto her which I did not like.

Whenever they got into an argument or something– I was his best friend, he was my best friend– so he would tell me. But then a few hours later, I’d hear a completely different side of the story from her. At this point, I knew he was a manipulator, he was a liar. So I tended to just listen to what Beth said because she was more genuine at this point. I was just so appalled by some of the things he was saying about her, and I just did not like that at all.

INTARAPANONT: Yeah, it’s definitely hard to be so close with someone and then see a completely different side of them. It’s so glass-shattering.

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INTARAPANONT: So what did you do about it?

OUM: I started to distance myself a bit. The first three months was really hard to just deviate away because you have a routine with someone. Especially someone I would consider to be my brother because of how close we were. We shared everything together. I would talk to him every day, every time there was something exciting that was happening in my life, he was always the first one I would reach out to.

The main reason I just stayed friends with him though was for Beth’s sake because I don’t think she was ready to leave the relationship yet even though a common friend in our friend group– we’ll call him Tom– and I were just telling her, “Listen, I don’t think this is a good situation for you to be in and I really don’t think this relationship is healthy. I think you should focus on yourself and leave this relationship.”

INTARAPANONT: And what did Beth say about that?

OUM: At this stage, Beth was starting to believe the things that Jason would tell her about herself. She blamed herself a lot. She didn’t feel like she could leave. He was basically her first love, you know? He first, like, real relationship. Their relationship was going on for about a year, a year and a half.

In a way, I feel like I had to retrain my brain from texting him all the time about things that were going on in my life– that was something we’ve been doing for two years in high school. All the exciting things that would happen, he was the first one I would reach out to and tell. I feel like I was just doing a bunch of random things, picked up new hobbies, just to distract myself. I started going to chess club a lot more. I went almost every day. Jason did get me out of my comfort zone, so I started talking more to people that were there rather than just him.

INTARAPANONT: Was it hard during that time to still have him in the friend group but know about the things that he was saying and doing?

OUM: It was hard because I feel like I had to watch him go through this facade of him being someone that was different than what he exposed me to. Everyone was still buddy-buddy with him, and I was just thinking to myself, “They really don’t know what he’s like.” I just had to pretend that I was fine being his friend, when on the inside I was just– I felt– I don’t know how to explain it.

INTARAPANONT: I also was going through the same struggles of wanting to completely cut ties, but no one else knew. I remember there was one time where you, me, Jason, Beth, and some other people were hanging out, and me and Beth split off from the group to go do our own thing, and she told me everything about Jason.

It was just completely shocking to me and I did not know what to think. That was very much a glass-shattering moment for me. It just completely changed my view of him. It was kind of like a personal moral dilemma for me because I feel like continuing to be friends with him, it was kind of enabling that kind of behavior and encouraging it and saying it’s okay, and I was very conflicted about that.

OUM: I think that if I was going through this Jason situation by myself, I would’ve been a lot more unhappy and just really conflicted with myself, so I was kind of glad that I was able to have you and Tom also see this side of him at the same time I was seeing it. I feel like that really helped me get through it. It just felt like a weight was lifted off my shoulders because it wasn’t a burden that I had to hold by myself.

INTARAPANONT: It’s definitely easier to go through something when you know you’re not alone. I think it did really help that we were all there  to support each other and figure out the situation that we’ve never really experienced before together.

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INTARAPANONT: So you distanced yourself gradually. When was the point where you completely cut ties?

OUM: So this was freshman year of college, like winter break. The point where I completely cut ties with Jason was when Beth decided that she’s had enough. I feel like she really started to see the toxicity in the relationship and how badly he was treating her. What we were saying was finally catching up to her and she could finally start seeing it for herself. 

Her sister also helped her to open her eyes because I feel like when it comes to family, you tend to listen more to what they have to say than your friends. Her sister really shattered the glass for her. When she finally did decide to end the relationship, that was when we completely cut off contact with him because we really just stayed friends with him for her sake.

INTARAPANONT: Eventually our whole friend group found out what happened. Do you remember what that was like?

OUM: I think they felt the same way you did, to be honest. When our other friends found out what he did and how he treated Beth, it was hard for them to believe at first. They’ve known him for such a long time, and then they’re finding out things that they feel like don’t fit with his character.

It’s just so hard to believe at the beginning. But then I feel like they slowly started to put the pieces together, like bits and pieces from situations that they’ve been in. It’s kind of like when you find something out about someone, you kind of start reevaluating your whole friendship in your head. Does that make sense?

INTARAPANONT: Yeah. It’s kind of like, “Wow, I didn’t know this. What else do I now know?” And you just kind of start questioning yourself.

OUM: Yeah, and then I feel like they were also like, “I can’t believe I couldn’t see the signs sooner.”

INTARAPANONT: Eventually, we all did agree to cut ties. We started a new group chat, we kind of distanced ourselves form Jason, and I honestly think it was for the best. It was pretty mutual within our friend group that this is not someone who we want to associate ourselves with and that we don’t stand for that kind of behavior.

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INTARAPANONT: So we’ve been talking about how Jason has done some not favorable things, but he still was your best friend at some point. Do you regret the times that you shared with him and the memories that you have?

OUM: Looking back on it, I don’t regret being his friend because he did help me grow as a person. I really admired how adventurous he was. He was a really bold person, and he was also super confident which I really did admire. I was a really quiet person, as you know, but because of my friendship with him, I started branching out and doing things that I didn’t think I would. He really did watch me grow as a person, and I wouldn’t take that back despite the things that he’s done.

One of the main things I’ve learned is that people are put in your life, but they’re not always meant to stay, but you might as well just appreciate the time that you had together and all the fond memories that you’ve made.

INTARAPANONT: Yeah, I definitely think that’s a good way to think about it. Just because someone isn’t who you agree with anymore doesn’t mean you have to negate everything that happened in the past. It’s okay to still cherish those memories and have them for yourself because, yeah, they’re memories.

So it’s been a couple years since we’ve cut off ties with Jason. You want to give me a life update? How are things going?

OUM: I think it’s been about two years now that we haven’t spoken to Jason. Beth, Tom, and I are super close. We reach out to each other all the time now. Beth is doing great. She’s thriving, she’s living out her best life. She’s super happy and I just love that for her. It’s kind of like when you see someone who was going through a hard time just finally be happy, you’re really happy for them.

As for myself, I feel like after my friendship with Jason ended, I kind of lost my confidence a little bit, because I was just questioning, like, are my friends really– okay, okay, that sounds so bad.

INTARAPANONT: No, I think that’s fine. That’s valid.

OUM: I just didn’t think I would be able to have a connection like the one I had with Jason ever again, but I’ve proven myself wrong because I have a new best friend and I feel like they’re really real this time.

INTARAPANONT: That’s good. I’m really glad that you were able to find someone new that you can rely upon.

OUM: Yeah.

INTARAPANONT: Thank you so much, Tevy. I really appreciate you sitting down to talk with me about this. It was really good to catch up.

OUM: Thanks for having me here.

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INTARAPANONT: Tevy was recently accepted to the nursing program at the University of Illinois at Chicago and will begin her Bachelors of Science in Nursing degree in the Fall.

Until my next conversation, thanks for listening to From The Ashes.