The War on Women’s Interests Ep.1

War on Womens Interest Episode 1

Have you ever been judged for enjoying an episode of “The Bachelor” or crying during a particularly emotional rose ceremony? Trust us, we’ve been there. We’re tired of being shamed for loving Bachelor Monday while the male counterpart, NFL Sunday, is held in high regard. Listen to us break down these two TV staples and more in episode 1.

Reality TV, fangirls, romance novels, chick flicks, astrology: Our culture loves to hate stereotypical ‘women’s interests,’ but why? What makes beer-fueled Sunday football more acceptable than a wine glass on Bachelor Monday? And who gets to decide? In this podcast, Kim and Kate will reclaim the power of women’s interests by taking them out of the depths of shame and into the center spotlight.

Transcription:

KIM BATES, HOST:

The definition of reality television is television programs in which real people are continuously filmed designed to be entertaining, rather than formative. I would argue that’s football! I would argue that football is also reality TV.

Introduction Music

KIM:

Hey, everyone, welcome to the first episode of The War on Women’s Interests. My name is Kim Bates.

KATE FRANKE, HOST:

And my name is Kate Franke. To kick off our very first episode, we’ll be talking about Bachelor Monday versus Football Sunday. So, we acknowledge that we are not experts on the psychology of sexism and the dominant culture. Rather, we are two women who have experienced many of the things we will discuss in this podcast, it’s important to know that we are not speaking on behalf of all people and the dominant culture. Instead, we are discussing our own thoughts, anecdotes, and opinions, along with the research that we found. But before we dive in, we just want to touch on how this podcast came to be. 

KIM:

So I’ve noticed this really controversial societal issue that stereotypical men’s interests are seen as important in society. While stereotypical women’s interests are trivialized. We should discuss how this might affect women’s sense of worth and how society views women. 

KATE:

Oh, for sure. In thinking of this podcast, the idea came about from a TikTok video that I saw, because that’s where all the great ideas come from. And I saw a video. It was from the user Daniel Padilla. He was using the video to act out a fictionalized interaction with a woman who believes in astrology, and then the woman character in the TikTok, like, fiercely believed in astrology. And, by the end of the video, the aggression that went into that video really made me wonder, like, why are certain stereotypical women’s interests viewed negatively by men? And then, subsequently, by the dominant culture in general. 

KIM:

So, I guess our mission of this podcast, essentially, is to make space for stereotypical women’s hobbies and show that they’re just as interesting and important as stereotypical male interests. 

KATE:

And, the structure of the podcast is we’ll talk about one stereotypical woman’s interest per episode, and just talk about, you know, impressions, any research that we found, and then some specific stories—maybe a few anecdotes along the way about our personal lives and things like that. 

KIM:

So, hop on the ride, guys, and let’s talk about stereotypical women’s interests. 

KATE:

Yes, and we do just want to preface that anytime we do, say ‘men’ or ‘women,’ we do not mean all men or all women. We just want to say that. 

KIM:

We are just speaking from our experiences, as well as the research to back it up. It’s not only our opinions, there’s a lot out there to backup our point-of-view. And, we just want to bring that to the masses. To start, before we really launch into this is discussing what a guilty pleasure is. So, the definition of the guilty pleasure is, “something such as a movie television program or piece of music that one enjoys despite feeling that it is not generally held in a high regard,” according to Oxford languages. 

KATE:

Many stereotypical women’s interests are seen as guilty pleasures, but not men’s. And so, I found this really interesting. And in the research that I did, some of the things that were listed as, like, common guilty pleasures were, like, binge watching reality TV.

KIM:

Watching romance films

KATE:

Having a glass of wine on a weeknight 

KIM:

Reading celebrity drama

KATE:

Taking selfies 

KIM:

And shopping, but who doesn’t like shopping? Like, come on. 

KATE:

So in the same research, I really struggled to find any stereotypical men’s interests that were seen as guilty pleasures. And, I feel like this is just a reflection of the greater society or the dominant culture, which is that women’s interests are inherently viewed as guilty pleasures while society accepts these stereotypical men’s interests. They’re just more socially acceptable. 

KIM:

Some stereotypical female interests that are seen as guilty pleasures to other people are sometimes still guilty pleasures to women. Like, honestly, I really like Twilight.

KATE:

Me too! 

KIM:

But I count that as, like, a guilty pleasure because everyone—that movie was super popular. 

KATE:

Yeah! 

KIM:

I was just watching a video about that, about how popular that was. And, you know, they have five movies. Five movies came out and a very solid fan base. And, I really liked those movies, and a lot of people did too. But now, I count it as a guilty pleasure even though it was originally a stereotypical women’s interest. But now, me, as a woman, I have internalized some insecurities, and I’ve made it a guilty pleasure. 

KATE:

Yeah, I’ve even been shamed, specifically, for Twilight by another woman. But yeah, there’s so much internalized misogyny when it comes to stereotypical women’s interest. That we’re conditioned to believe that, you know, we should be shamed for them, or that they’re just not acceptable. So, again, that’s why we wanted to have this podcast to make room, and be like, ‘Your interests are so valid, and they are so cool.’ 

KIM:

We should also broach the idea that stereotypical men’s interests are actually very accepted by society, and they’re, like, expected. Versus women’s stereotypical interests, I think, are labeled as stereotypical because they’re expected, but they’re not accepted. 

KATE:

That’s true. And I’ve also, going back to TikTok, you know, I’ve also recently seen a lot of videos where some men are questioning, and they’re like, ‘Do women even have hobbies? Do they even have—’ 

KIM:

Oh my god, I’ve seen so many of those. I saw another one where a guy was like, ‘Hey, do women even have hobbies? Do they even have interests?’ And then they went so far to say that, like, it’s a green flag when a woman knits because it represents household and household keeping activities. And he said, women are just good at those activities because it’s nurturing, and it’s for the home. 

KATE:

If that is truly what men believe, then that just further backs up the idea that men’s interests are so ingrained in society and so expected they’re just confused at the idea of a woman’s interest because they don’t even—they don’t even hear about them. It’s only men’s interests. 

KIM:

I feel like it also comes down to if you look at the male gaze versus the female gaze and more than just sexuality. For our viewers who aren’t familiar with what a female or male gaze is, it is “the perspective of a notionally typical heterosexual man considered as embodied in the audience, or intended audience, for films or other visual media. Characterized by a tendency to objectify or sexualize women.” So, this is talked a lot about in cinematography, and in film, and that’s typically when it’s used. But, TikTok has gone so far, as well as, like, other people, to talk about how the male gaze is in real life. And, I think that the male gaze can reach into our hobbies. And that they look at our hobbies, and they aren’t even sure what they are because they’re just looking through the male gaze—through their eyes and what it means to be a woman. And, you know, knitting or doing other things, like just hanging out with friends or watching The Bachelorette, that doesn’t seem very sexy to them I bet. I went on a date with a guy, and I really wanted to get burgers and beer because burgers and beer are good, and they pair well together, in my opinion. And he was, like, so surprised, and he was, like, so happy. He was like, ‘Oh my gosh, it’s so sexy that you’re drinking, that you, like, order beer.” And I was like, “I’m pretty sure that, like, a lot of women like beer.” And he goes, “It’s not as common as you think.” And I’m like, “All of my girlfriends drink beer. They at least have one beer that they really like. And like, a lot of us know the difference between beers. So like, I don’t know who you’re hanging out with, but the majority of the women that I know like some sort of beer.” 

KATE:

I’m so curious if his perspective on that is based off of actual experience—like him going out with women who don’t like beer, or if it’s just this idea that, like, ‘Oh, well, women are too dainty to like beer. They’re only wine drinkers. They only like cocktails.’ 

KIM:

People need to get over when it comes to putting gender labels on activities, and drinks, and stuff. Because if you’ve never tried a strawberry daiquiri, it will change your life. 

KATE:

Maybe it’s time to do it right now. Going off of that, there’s this idea that women should feel bad about the things that they like. So you know, like watching romance films and liking reality TV. But it just makes me wonder, you know, what makes them less acceptable than football? I mean, because they’re both television shows, reality TV and then football. 

KIM:

I think it has something to do with the idea that femininity, whether it’s traditional, or you know, women these days are remaking what it means to be a woman. I think that’s usually just seen as weaker or inferior because women have been typically part of the home, child-bearers. It wasn’t until 1920 that we could vote. It wasn’t until the 1960s that we could get our own bank account. Now, more women are going to college. More women are working. So, I think we’ve just been seen as weaker or inferior because we haven’t been able to hold power positions, or, literally, our own money, or our own political opinions for very long. 

KATE:

Oh, to be a woman in society. 

KIM:

Oh, it’s just a walk in the park. 

KATE:

Well, we decided, you know, a good start to this series would be to look at Bachelor Monday versus Football Sunday because both names are coined after the program that airs that day, but one seems to be more socially acceptable than the other. 

KIM:

Talk about gender stereotypes. That’s going both ways. 

KATE:

We pulled up just some stats because we just want to know plain and simple the differences in viewership and demographic of these two shows before we dive in deeper. 

KIM:

If you don’t like numbers, you can skip through here, but personally, I think this is very interesting. There is also Monday night and Thursday night football to accompany Sunday night football, but the viewership for Monday night’s average is 14.2 million, and the viewership for Thursday’s average is 16.4 million, compared to Sunday night’s 18.6 million average, according to The Wall Street Journal.

KATE:

I honestly didn’t expect a lot of this. So, the current season of The Bachelor, which is Clayton, that averages about, you know, 3.3 million viewers, which is a pretty decent decrease from what we saw last season with Matt James, which was 5.3 million viewers. But, at its peak, it actually had a ton of viewers, like, over 18 million people were tuning in. That top stat matches the NFL in their regular season, which averages about, you know, 17 million viewers. So, Super Bowl 2022, that happened a few months ago. That had the most viewers of the past five years. So, in total, they had around 208 million viewers, which is pretty insane. I saw on their NFL website that 90% of all people using a television during that time frame on February 13 were watching the Super Bowl. That is insane. So, definitely a lot bigger than The Bachelor, but nonetheless, we are still going to compare them because they both are two popular programs that a lot of people like to watch. I think diving more into, ‘Why do these numbers exist? Why are they the way that they are?’ First of all, The Bachelor airs on Monday, which is during the work week. And the NFL, they typically play on Sunday, so people have more time to just lounge around and watch the game. So, I think that sort of factors into viewership outside of, you know, the gender thing that we’ll touch on. 

KIM:

I also want to, like, broach the fact that sometimes football games can go on for hours. Like just because there’s the time on the clock that says one minute and thirty seconds, does not mean it’s going to be one minutes and thirty seconds. Versus, The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, you know, it’s going to be an hour or two. Having all day Sunday, but the game taking all day Sunday, and sometimes even starting at three, four, or five, and then The Bachelor, starting at seven, eight. 

KATE:

Yeah

KIM:

And lasts about two hours. I feel like it is an excuse because one—one thing takes all Sunday, and then you have work on Monday, and then you only have two hours for The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. 

KATE:

Plus, I mean, I feel like for a game, you know, you can pretty much catch it at any point, and you’ll be able to follow along. Like, if you only catch, what, like the last quarter you—you still get, like, the gist of what happened. But in terms of The Bachelor, like, if you watch the last half hour of an episode, you’re gonna be so confused as to what happened.

KIM:

You’re going to lose so many important details.

KATE:

You really have to follow along, like, watch every single episode when they air and in the correct order to follow along the storyline. So, I think that’s—that also plays a role in how many people watch it because it’s so, like, particular and how you need to view it. Versus football is pretty, like, chill.

KIM:

So, football starts on the first Monday of September following the weekend of Labor Day, and it ends in early January with the Super Bowl. So, that gives you an idea of how consistently football is—football Sunday. There is one season of The Bachelor each year, and there’s one season of The Bachelorette. In between, there are the other Bachelorette and Bachelor franchises. For our viewers who aren’t familiar with The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, usually it alternates. So, you have The Bachelor, and then he has his suitors. And one of the suitors, usually in the final five, ends up being the next Bachelorette. So the following season, you will see a woman that you saw from the previous season. Then she’ll have her batch of male suitors, and then one of the top five suitors, usually, will become the next Bachelor. Sometimes, they’ll take bachelor’s or bachelorette’s from a few seasons back that people really really liked. But, there’s this ongoing connection, and you know their personalities, and it just keeps going, and they’re all strangely interconnected. And, that makes kind of like this consistent, interesting story because it’s like, you know these people, like, you actually get to see their feelings. You get to see their thought process. You get to see fun activities, and I would argue, you don’t really get that as much with football because you’re just watching the game. But other than interviews, you’re not really getting to know your favorite players or your favorite teams. 

KATE:

Yeah, I do think there are quite a few similarities with The Bachelor and football, like NFL football, because most people have like a favorite team. You know, they’re rooting for the Green Bay Packers, or the Dallas Cowboys, or something like that. But, I know a lot of people who watch The Bachelor also feel that way about the contestants. They end up having a favorite that they want to win and be with the Bachelor or the Bachelorette. There are a lot of similarities, but again, there play’s the thing of having a favorite football team is acceptable, but, you know, talking about, ‘Oh, my favorite contestant Lauren,’ that’s sort of shamed because it’s—it’s trashy reality television.

KIM:

The definition of reality television is, “television programs in which real people are continuously filmed designed to be entertaining, rather than informative.” I would argue that’s football! I would argue that football is also reality TV because it’s not informative, but it is entertaining. And, it is real people being continuously filmed. And then there’s like this six month season, and we call it, “the football season.” But, how is that different from a television series? Airs every Sunday. We get different characters, different perspectives. You know, it’s consistent. People tune in. I would argue football is reality TV. So, why when people imagine feminine reality TV, like The Bachelor or The Bachelorette—why is that shamed versus the football season that is filmed every year for six months? Real people, live, real life—is not shamed when they are both very clearly reality TV, according to this definition that Google so helpfully provided me. 

KATE:

I mean, I agree with you on the reality TV front for football. I think convincing the majority that that’s the case is probably going to be difficult. I’ve talked to my dad, and he watches, you know, a bunch of those shows on like the Discovery Channel, History Channel, and he loves, like, Deadliest Catch. And I’m like, ‘You know, this is reality TV, right? Like, they beef this up to make it more entertaining. Because, I mean, it’s just some men catching crabs on a boat. Like, how exciting can that really be if you don’t add drama?’ 

KIM:

What if the crab is feisty? That’s the drama. 

KATE:

But he is so against the idea that is actually reality television. Like, he refuses to believe it. 

KIM:

It’s like, that’s a real person doing their real life things with continuous filming. 

KATE:

Yeah, so I’m like, ‘Um, I don’t know. So, the stuff that I watch is reality TV, but the stuff that you watch, even though it’s essentially the same thing, is not reality TV?’ 

KIM:

I would imagine that there would be this argument that Deadliest Catch or football would be more informative than entertaining, just like The Bachelor, the Bachelorette. 

KATE:

That’s true. 

KIM:

But, I would argue that Deadliest Catch has drama, and you can learn how to catch whatever you’re trying to catch. But, I would argue that The Bachelor or The Bachelorette is about love and finding love. And, there’s a lot of drama, but it can also teach you about your standards and the things that you like in a person. 

KATE:

I think that’s very true. I think The Bachelor teaches you a lot about, like, interpersonal communication, you know. Like, they’re in a house with a ton of women or a ton of men. Like, you’re gonna see conflict resolution. I don’t know, just a lot of, like, how to—how to socialize with a group of people, how to date the same man. 

KIM:

It’s a bit more emotionally complicated. 

KATE:

Yeah

KIM:

There’s a lot more emotional thought into it. And, I’m not shaming men, or women, or anyone who watches football for not wanting to turn off their mind for a few hours. Like, I do that too with The Bachelor or the Bachelorette, but I would say that there’s something to note. That The Bachelor and The Bachelorette teaches you social skills or talks about love, and it’s a bit more emotionally driven. And there’s more emotional thought and complexity in it. And, I think it’s interesting that that’s the show that gets shamed. 

KATE:

That’s true, and I think there’s also this perception that men don’t like romance, which I think is interesting because it’s like, ‘Okay—’

KIM:

I think that’s a dirty lie

KATE:

And—

KIM:

It’s a lie. You ever gotten a man flowers? He loves it. Come on. 

KATE:

I’m like, ‘Okay, in all those Marvel movies, like, there is love.’ In the newest Spider Man, what is it? Zendaya and Tom Holland, like, they have a whole love thing going on, so clearly, these Marvel movies are marketed more towards, you know, men, but they do have these romantic things in them. So, men must like them. 

KIM:

Yeah, Mary Jane and Peter Parker, Vision and Wanda, Nat and Banner. Like, there’s always—there are these characters. There is love there, and I wouldn’t argue that that’s marketed for the women because it’s more subtle in those movies, I would say. Peter Parker and MJ, not so much, because that’s been known through the comics. But yeah, it’s a bit more subtle in the stories. It’s not the main story, but it’s more subtle. I wouldn’t argue that, like, is for women only. Like, because we only get glimpses of it. It’s very intimate. It’s very quick. The main storyline is still there. Some of them are, like, very—it’s a slow burn. And, I don’t think that if that romance is solely for women then they wouldn’t really make people sit through, like, I think there’s like 15 or 20 movies, for a slow burn. 

KATE:

And, I mean, there is some sort of romantic aspect to NFL football. Like, it’s pretty well known that Tom Brady, and his wife, like, Giselle, are, you know, in this wonderful, beautiful relationship. Like, people know her, so, I mean, romance does play some part in the NFL. 

KIM:

As well as like, there is some softness to it. I mean, people love seeing football players with their families, with their kids, with their kids wearing jerseys or tossing around a football. That pulls at people’s heartstrings. People pay attention to that. 

KATE:

What is it? When they have those press meetings, like, after a game, and they’ll talk to the players. Like, a lot of times, they’ll bring their kids in, and they’ll just be around. People eat that up. They love that. And, you know, that’s—I would say for those, it’s, you know, a lot of male viewers, so there is, like, this softer component to football.

KIM:

Speaking of viewers, let’s look at those viewers. This is some quick stuff that we found on YouGovAmerica. 77% of Bachelor viewers are women. 23% of Bachelor viewers are men. The biggest demographic of women viewers are age 65 and older, and the biggest demographic of male viewers are 25 to 34. That’s interesting. That’s, like, prime finding love age. 

KATE:

Yeah

KIM:

Dating age. And, are they watching it with their girlfriends? Or are they watching it alone? We’ll never know. But it’s something to think about. 

KATE:

I would say, I would—I would argue that these men just watch it at, like, home. Because I would assume that these are the same guys who are, you know, applying to be on The Bachelor. So, I should hope that they—that they watch the show. That they know a little bit about it.

KIM:

Yeah, it’s on Hulu. It’s very easily—what’s the word? 

KATE:

Accessible

KIM:

It’s very easily accessible. And then, let’s look at some NFL statistics. So, according is Statista, 44% of American men consider themselves avid fans of the NFL, and 34% of men are casual fans. Together, that’s 78% out of 100% of the viewers. Then on the other side for women, 18% of American women consider themselves avid fans for the NFL. 40% of women are casual fans, which means that 58% out of 100% of the viewers that are women do watch football. Now, there’s still a 20% difference in how much women and men watch football. And, though many women do intend to watch football, and that they even enjoy it—being either avid fans or casual fans—I challenge those to ask themselves, ‘Why isn’t it considered normal for women to watch football?’ This is a podcast on the war on women’s interest, so why is there a war still on women’s interest in football if so many women do enjoy it? That’s a lot of women. As well as like, 23% of Bachelor viewers being men ages 25 to 34, that’s something to take note of. 

KATE:

Yeah, and I think there’s also this conception that, like, ‘Oh, well, young women love The Bachelor.’ And many do. I love The Bachelor, but I think it goes to show that, like, our—the biggest women demographic is 65 and older. So, like, you know, the grandmas.

KIM:

I mean, I think love is a—I mean, that’s what all the songs are about, the poems, and that’s why the wars were fought. I think love is a big thing in our society. 

KATE:

Yeah, and I think, I mean, it’s pretty impressive that, like, one show can have such a wide demographic. Like, I mean, I think the stats started from eight—age 18 up to that 65 and older, and there was like a good chunk for all of them. So, I mean, Bachelor viewers are pretty much any age, which is, I mean, that’s, that’s decent. 

KIM:

Not bad. As well as, like, there’s—I was watching it younger than, like, 18. 

KATE:

Oh yeah, me too.

KIM:

So, there’s probably also a demographic that, like, isn’t even mentioned. 

KATE:

For sure. 

KIM:

I think there’s a lot of reasons why people like The Bachelor franchise, and I think that these reasons can apply to men too. Like, it offers a two hour escape from the stress—from the stresses of life. It’s emotional, which we touched on earlier. 

KATE:

Yeah, a lot of highs and lows from, you know, those romances that are blossoming to the rose ceremony at the very end where people get sent home, possibly your favorite. That’s where we come in with the loyalty and having a favorite, but, yeah.

KIM:

Oh man, and when your favorite decides to, like, out themselves, and they’re like, ‘I’m taking myself out of this.’ Oh, it just devastates me.

KATE:

It is. It’s so bad.

KIM:

It devastates—like when Kit Keenan on James’s season. I loved her. New York icon, my queen. Yeah, she was like, ‘I’m leaving.’ And, she was, like, in the top five, and I was like, ‘Girl, come back. I love you.’ 

KATE:

But also—Okay, speaking on this, I think I’m so passionate about this. 

KIM:

Okay. 

KATE:

I feel like, okay—So when it’s like a men’s season, when it’s The Bachelor, and you have a ton of girls competing for this relationship with Him. We often forget that there are, you know, two people in the relationship, and the woman can also not be feeling it. 

KIM:

That’s true. 

KATE:

So, it’s like, it’s not just what the Bachelor is feeling. Like, you know, the girl can be like, ‘I’m not really seeing a spark. I want to go home.’ And, I feel like whenever that happens, it brings up, like, ‘Was she here for the right reasons? Was she just here to get famous if she wasn’t actually gonna be with him?’ And I’m like, ‘No, she just—she thought he was cute, so she got on the show. And then, she tried to, you know, have a relationship, and it just didn’t—there wasn’t something there for her. 

KIM:

So, you know, the show has drama. It’s idyllic. I mean, they go on cool dates, like bungee jumping, helicopter rides, private concerts, like, just the artists and The Bachelor couple. Eventually, they like, like, go to hometowns, and meet families, and do fun things, and then there’s the Fantasy Suite. If you’re not familiar with the Fantasy Suite, look it up. 

KATE:

Yeah, I do think a lot of people, like a lot of viewers of The Bachelor, sort of live through the adventures that they go on. You know, a lot of times you don’t even realize, like, what’s out there. So seeing, like, all of these, I don’t know, activities, and just different places out there, and how beautiful they actually are—

KIM:

I actually forgot that before COVID, like, after each rose ceremony, they would, like, go to the people, and they’d be like, ‘We’re going to Croatia. We’re going to Hawaii.’ It was like a bunch of different, like, destinations, and then that’s where they would be for the week. And, there’s like a mansion for each destination they are going to. It’s insane. 

KATE:

It really is. 

KIM:

So, I kind of forgot about that because we’ve been in COVID for a very long time. Like, what, three or four seasons now? 

KATE:

Oh, yeah. Another reason that women, you know, like The Bachelor, or just people in general, like The Bachelor, is that it’s real. I think Hannah Brown’s season had a really good example of this, where she was shamed for having sex in the Fantasy Suite, which is—

KIM:

That’s the point of the Fantasy Suite. 

KATE:

Without saying, yeah, that’s what happens. That’s what goes down. You spend the night together. So what do we think happens? But anyway, she had this fantasy suite with a guy. And then, you know, the next day, she went on another date with this different guy. 

KIM:

That’s how that works, by the way.

KATE:

Yes, this is exactly how it’s planned. You know, happens every single season. And so this guy, this second guy, was shaming her for having sex, like, telling her that she was impure, that that’s not what he would want to in a wife. And I’m like, ‘That just reflects, I think, so many experiences of women in real life, which is that the dominant culture celebrates men who go out and have sex, and get all these experiences. But when a woman tries to do that, it’s seen as, like, impure, that you’re wasting your body. And, there’s just such a double standard, and it showed so clearly on that show.’ 

KIM:

Y’all ever heard “The Man” by Taylor Swift? Yeah, I totally understand. I get that. I think there’s such a double standard about what’s acceptable for men and what’s acceptable for women. But I think the reason why women really liked The Bachelorette, that season, especially Hannah’s, was it was real. Because she stood up for herself. She was like, ‘Okay, I’m not impure. I’ve had sex. I’m going to own up to that. I made that decision. I know what this is. Like, I’m not going to let you shame me, or make me uncomfortable for decisions I made in confidence, that I’m comfortable with, that aligned with my morals.’ And, I think that was really empowering for a lot of women to watch. 

KATE:

That’s probably the whole reason why she was my favorite Bachelorette, beyond just the fact that she’s funny and cool to watch. But, yeah, just the fact that she stood up for herself. And I know that made her a really controversial Bachelorette. Like, I know a lot of people, after she did that, did not like her. But, I think for the majority, it was an empowering moment. And just to say, you know, we’ve touched on the idea, or the reasons why a lot of people like The Bachelor, but I just want to reiterate that all of these reasons are valid. If you love The Bachelor because of the drama, that’s so valid. If you like it because it’s real or emotional—

KIM:

Valid

KATE:

Also valid. It doesn’t matter what your reasons are for watching it. They’re valid. And, I know that a lot of people get shamed because, you know, it’s seen as trashy or whatever else they want to say, but just know that if you liked The Bachelor, like Kim and I do, totally fine. Go ahead, watch it, love it. Do whatever you want to do. 

KIM:

I also want to say that if you like watching football, man or woman—you like watching The Bachelorette, man or woman—that’s also entirely valid. 

KATE:

Yes

KIM:

What isn’t valid is shaming other people’s interests because it doesn’t fit into a box, or it fits too much into a box. All right. Okay, that’s the end of this podcast episode, but stay tuned for our next one. It’s about astrology. 

KATE:

Yes. So, look up your astrology chart, your natal chart, and come ready to drink a glass of wine and listen to us talk. And, please remember to take up space, enjoy your interest, and don’t take anyone’s BS.

Outro Music

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